I just saw a CNN report on the number of women who have died in combat in Iraq. They cite the number as 25. That “is the largest number of women who have died in combat since World War Two” according to the reporterette (to use a Limbaugh word for all those who believe I’m a right-wing fanatic).
The story focused on one female Army Staff Sergeant who was 39 years old when she died after falling into a bomb crater just three weeks prior to rotation home. She was an administrative clerk.
Those are all the facts as presented. Additionally, her father claims she had been pressed into service doing house-to-house clearing due to the shortage of personnel. To nobody’s surprise, he doesn’t support the war.
A lot of military people out there are now raising their eyebrows in a decidedly Spock-like manner. For the rest of you, let me explain.
As an E6 at 39, she is not a fast-burner. Many things may have contributed to that, and we know nothing more from the report. Secondly, if Birdie ever takes an admin clerk with him to clear houses without first integrating them into his platoon with some intense training, I’ll personally kick his butt. That’s a good way to get some good people killed. Finally, a woman of that age who is not in good physical condition (I’m basing that on the photos shown on television) has no business being anywhere near a fire-fight.
Now, the fact she died after falling into a hole has me wondering where this crater was, and why was she there, and why she was not aware of the crater. And did the crater have anything to do with clearing houses? The reporter didn’t say. She was too busy telling us our military is so weak that we must used untrained women to do some of the most dangerous work in the country.
Sorry. My bullshit meter is pegged.
I can give you an explanation that is probably 98.234234% accurate. She as many other “support” personnel like to go out and site see. I can’t remember exactly how many (over 30) I had to stop and tell them to get out of my area, because if the local insergents would have seen them, they would have been killed. She was probably acting as a female searcher for a unit clearing sectors. Women (especially admin clerks) do not clear houses. They don’t know how, and they are not trained like we are as far as reactions are concerned. Yes she probably know how to fill out the proper form at a moments notice, but killing someone is completly different (Wallace can back me on that).
An E-6 that is 39 years old, like Bunker said, is not the most squared away soldier (military slang). It takes the average soldier 6 years to make E-6 and 14 to make E-7. The more “squared away soldier” makes E-6 in 4 years and E-7 in 8, and E-8 in 14. By any means she was not “an army of one.”
Comment by Birdie — January 15, 2005 @ 6:16 pm
I’ve not followed the story, but if the individual was in the NG, E6 at 39 is not so bad….
My second point is about clerks in combat. There’s no place for them. I have three pals who have commanded “truck driver” battalions in the Ordnance, Quartermaster, and Transportation Corps. When Jessica Lynch got whacked, none of them were surprised that “a truck driver got lost and wandered into an ambush.”
Keep the clerks and jerks in the rear, with the gear, the Sergeant Major, and the beer.
To quote an infantryman, of course.
Comment by Paulie at The Commons — January 15, 2005 @ 7:34 pm
Women in Combat
Bunker Mulligan When truck driverette Jessica Lynch wandered into an ambush and got whacked during the initial phase of the Iraq Campaign, I asked the following question: “Hey, Pat Schroeder, are you happy now?” Women get to be shot up:…
Trackback by The Commons at Paulie World — January 15, 2005 @ 7:49 pm
The press is all over themselves with this issue. Women should be able to do anything men can do, but when they get killed like the men, they go insane.
Comment by John Rogers — January 16, 2005 @ 6:45 am
She didn’t even get killed, she fell into a hole and “died”.
Comment by Birdie — January 16, 2005 @ 7:50 am
First off, I have some friends in El Paso. The real story according to them is the Commander couldn’t read a darn map and due to his incompetence, Lynch and her fellow soldiers found themselves in the mess that is now nationally known. Funny though, a private is blamed (or the fact a female was involved) and the idiot Commander didn’t even get a slap on the wrist. Welcome to the Army…
As far as the SSG…women do go on missions in Iraq and it’s not always for “a joy ride” or sight seeing. 1st Infantry Division had a team of women (called Lionesses) who went on missions outside the wire with the male combat platoons (both Army and Marines). They handled the women civilians to try to keep the local population from turning against our forces even more. As you all know, men handling civilian women in this part of the world causes major problems. These women did a job some men there didn’t want to do (too many male soldiers too scared to even convoy much less go kick in doors) and they didn’t complain or cry “we’re women, we can’t do combat.” They went with pride because they knew that their presence, their handling of the muslim women might help save a fellow soldier (male or female) in the long run.
And each MOS is different in regards to promotions. Some MOSs – the “fast trackers” as posted above might happen. In other MOSs, being a SSG after 14 years of service doesn’t necessarily mean you area slug – as my husband would call someone who is a worthless soldier. My husband made SSG in four and a half years, up for E-7 at around 9 years. However, in other MOSs, it just can’t happen that way even for great soldiers who do everything right and volunteer for the hard jobs. We have 30 year old privates now – people coming into the service later in life. Not everyone joins at 18 these days. Also, as mentioned above, for Reserve and Guard, promotions are an entirely different world than Active Duty.
Like it or not, there are NO front lines in this war. Women ARE in combat and if we don’t want them in combat, we need to get them out of the Army. Otherwise, they will be expected to be a soldier first because even inside the wire is a combat zone due to our FOBs being mortared daily in many parts of Iraq. Every time I hear Bush or others say “no women in combat” I have to laugh. Those women who served with MY husband in one of the most volatile cities in Iraq saw more combat than most male soldiers in the Green Zone…yet according to our government, we have no women in combat lol. Yeah. Riiiighhht.
Comment by Army wife — January 16, 2005 @ 12:36 pm
Thanks for the info. I have no doubt there are some women can do the job, and some men who can’t. I had two of the first women on the flightline and one was the best mechanic I had, and the other was a total waste. In my career, I saw far more of the latter than former.
The issue here is the media coverage of a woman’s death as if she had died with an M16 in her hands doing a job she wasn’t qualified for. Nothing in the report backed that up. In fact, she died from a fall into a hole, with no explanation of the event at all.
What I’m addressing is that reasons for her presence in convoys (for which we have only the reporter’s assurances) could have been many. Again, the reporter wants to tell the story for a reason, and we have no way of knowing whether we’re hearing fact or fantasy.
Comment by Bunker — January 16, 2005 @ 1:14 pm
Army wife, yes women do go on missions in Iraq. When we would do normal house searches, one would go with us to search and control the women. When we did our raids, no women were with us. Even when we were in Afghanistan, the same thing; searches we took women, raids we didn’t. But that’s the way “Combat Units” work.
When you compare pogue units (combat support/combat service support) to units in the Green Zone, you are talking about the same units. The only combat units in the Green Zone, are the ones guarding the top officals. There are no combat units other than aviation that have women in them. Yes the army has women that can kick in doors, and as a Ranger, they all scare me, they are 6’2″ and weigh 200 lbs, and look like the old East German Olympic team.
As far as FOBs getting mortared every day, it is because of the lack of security in that FOB. Lets get into the FOB that the suicide bomber “walked” into. That should tell you how lazy the pogue units are.
When I was in Iraq, my Battalion controled an area of Baghdad that had a population of 60,000. We never had a mortar round land in our FOB. Yes we did have the RPGs shot at us every now and then, but the insergents were soon killed. The major command that we fell under (division sized) controlled one half of Baghdad, and then another division had the other half.
But like I said before, most of the pogues are scared to even leave their FOB’s.
Comment by Birdie — January 16, 2005 @ 5:29 pm
I apologize, I said the Green Zone as an example – like some of those who are based out of a palace and their idea of combat or hardship is their internet being down for a day lol. Where my husband was, being mortared was just part of life in Al Anbar (luckily they rarely hit anything). It had nothing to do with being scared to go outside the wire since they often spent more time outside the wire than inside lol. The Sunni Triangle is just a horse of a different color. It’s like when the Marines were coming in to take over from the 82nd. They had “signs” they were going to put up about the Marines being their friends. They were going to send Marines on foot patrols and be more touchy feely instead of so heavy handed – as they accused the 82nd’s stance of being. That is, until the Marines actually moved in and saw reality in that part of Iraq. Seemed to me, as a civilian reading the quotes in the press mind you, the Marine leadership enjoyed slamming the 82nd’s way of doing things. That is, until they arrived and got kicked in the teeth a few times.
Sorry – back to the point lol. I’ve never worn a military uniform. I love my country and I support what we are doing…but that’s lip service compared to what so many women in uniform have done and are doing. As a wife, I can only imagine the job they do, and me having never done the job myself (when I was young enough to join that is), I can’t help but have overwhelming respect for them. I’ve met some of these young women who did the job – and met a few cowards left on Rear D of the male persuasion too.
I guess my point is, there are women out there working hard and not just riding a desk or starting an IV. As far as the SSG – I agree with Bunker. No telling why she was there and most likely the entire story is agenda based considering we’re talking about our media. Women as a whole though, Lynch and this SSG do not represent the entire picture. Our President, the Army and the media saying “no women in combat” is a farce. If women were allowed no farther than Kuwait, I’d agree. They aren’t kept in Kuwait though. They are hanging their weapons out of a vehicle’s window just like their male counterparts as they roll into and out of Iraq. They are outside the wire searching civilian women and coming under fire going from point A to point B. Do they kick in doors? Gosh I haven’t a clue, but I know there are no front lines in this war and as long as there are women serving our country in Iraq they are in combat and earning their pay. I just wish our President, the Army and the media would be honest about it and not downplay what they are doing. They are no less deserving of respect and honor than those of the male persuasion standing next to them.
Should they be there to begin with? I honestly don’t know and I flip back and forth on that issue. I know the problems that come with women in a unit compared to units my husband has been in that have no women. However, right now they are there. Maybe I’m seeing it wrong, but when I hear quotes of no women in combat, I can’t help but feel that our government is downplaying their importance to the mission. Am I seeing/interpreting it wrong?
Comment by Army wife — January 16, 2005 @ 8:12 pm
First of all, I’ve not heard anyone say there are no women in combat. But, I don’t watch much television–especially TV news. But all women in Iraq are in a combat zone. Up until last spring, Kuwait was considered a combat zone also.
Women in non-traditional jobs goes back to the ’70s when the first were allowed into positions like the flightline and flying. In the ’90s, this got expanded to include duty on ships. Unfortunately, the military has always been used as a social science lab because politicians can change the military even if they can’t change society.
My only real issue with women being in these jobs is quality, and that is an issue because the standards for women aren’t the same as those for men. If you watch any unit doing PT, you’ll quickly see what I mean.
Comment by Bunker — January 17, 2005 @ 5:23 am