I use to think the ACLU was in the business of looking out for Joe Average American, acting as a watchdog over the government and its tentacles reaching ever deeper into our souls–you know, kinda like MSM.
But like any organization that has success in living up to its original charter, once its work is pretty much complete, it begins looking for other things to keep those who live off its income employed. We will never see a “non-profit organiztion” simply decide to close up shop because their work is done. They must continually look for “victims” to “help.”
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
That’s pretty clear, is it not? Okay, it may not be clear what “an establishment of religion” means. The precise meaning was, and is, that the Federal Government cannot establish any religion by law. Nor can Congress prohibit anyone from exercising their own religion. Less than two decades later, almost immediately after his inauguration, President Jefferson responded to a Baptist association in Connecticut whose congregation feared he would restrict them in their religious practices. He wrote to assure them he would not, and told them he felt “separation of church and state” were essential.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions
Funny that the Separation advocates ignore the last part of that sentence and often advocate hate crime legislation. If we are to take Jefferson’s words as unofficial amendment to the Constitution, perhaps we should include them all. Isn’t it also odd that Jefferson would also say (in the same letter), “I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man.” Do you think he meant God?
Actually, if you want to understand the essence of the words in our Constitution and its first ten Amendments, maybe the best way is to see how James Madison, primary author of the document, first wrote it:
The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience by in any manner, or on any pretext infringed.
Today we have the ACLU demanding the Defense Department distance itself from the Boy Scouts, and we have a teacher in California in trouble for distributing historic documents to his students. And our popular ACLU continues its assault on Christmas, with communities knuckling under in order to not have to spend exorbitant amounts of money fighting through court.
Will the ACLU come to the teacher’s defense? Isn’t the government imposing opinion?
The ACLU is also involved in trying to have a small cross removed from the Seal of the City of Los Angeles. They will prevail because the City will simply remove it rather than take the fight to court. Yet I see nothing in the First Amendment, or any other portion of the Constitution that restricts a city from having a religious symbol, or even a city ordinance requiring everyone in town to belong to a specific church. If a city council decide to force everyone to become Catholic, there is nothing in the First Amendment to prevent it.
It would be nice if everyone running for office had to pass a test on the Constitution. I would also prefer to see Justices on our Supreme Court be students of the Constitution rather than the law. Perhaps then groups like the ACLU would quit using what they see as tacit approval from the First Amendment–it only says Congress shall make no law; It says nothing restricting the courts from making those laws.
Oh boy yippee, I just had this debate with Precinct Chair, now I recycly my comments here too ;-).
This is the first of my posts over there, it was in regards to a situation at the Air Force Academy, and his positing that we are “inching forward toward the day when Americans of faith will find that they are a marginalized majority, unwelcome in the classroom, the government, and the halls of government.”
My Reply:
Inch forward??? I want us to run like the wind to that day, faith has zero to do with “morals”. Faith is fine if you keep it to yourself and stop trying to convert every damned one you meet. Ever think some of us are offended by your attempts to proselytize. Exactly what part of “Congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion ” is not comprehensible, by those of faith?? Suppose I have my faith and a part of that faith is to “live and let live” vis-a-vis other faiths, why is it not a part of yours?? As Mohandas Ghandi once so aptly put it when asked about Jesus “usurping” the Hindu gods: “Oh Jesus, I like Jesus, it’s Christians I do not like, for they are so UN-CHRISTLIKE”.
Comment by Bubba Bo Bob Brain — November 26, 2004 @ 6:27 pm
Unfortunately, you equate faith with evangelism.
The Federal Government is not allowed to establish a religion as a national faith–as opposed to what the Church of England once was, and what Islam is in many countries. Nor is Christianity a religion. It is made up of many, most of which have very different views.
That does not mean, nor does the Constitution state, that people cannot express their religion (whichever it may be) in the context of a government building or setting. In fact, the First Amendment actually prohibits that restriction.
So, if your faith is “live and let live”, why would you even bother to argue the point? My only argument is with people who don’t hold that belief. They are intolerant of people who express their faith.
Comment by Bunker — November 26, 2004 @ 6:50 pm
I just loathe being “converted/saved”. I went through a pretty serious “born again” phase when I was a teenager. When they sent me out with a handful of “tracts” and I was supposed to try to “convert” otherwise religious people to this way of thinking I saw how hypocritical I was being. Remember while the “establishment clause” grants you freedodm of religion, it also grants me freedom from religion.
Comment by Bubba Bo Bob Brain — November 26, 2004 @ 7:05 pm
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, the teacher thing is something of a canard, designed to drive deeper the wedge between the “fundie types” and those of us with little or no faith.
Comment by Bubba Bo Bob Brain — November 26, 2004 @ 7:15 pm
Actually, it doesn’t grant you freedom from religion. You have the right to walk away, and that right isn’t granted by the government. In fact, that’s the whole point of the Bill of Rights–the government has no power over you in those things because those rights are yours from birth. All the government could do it take them from you, and the Bill of Rights was written specifically to tell the government to stay out of your business.
And believe it or not, most people with faith feel exactly the same as you do about the evangelical nature of some folks. Many years ago when I was quite small, my mother got tired of Jehovah’s Witnesses coming to the door. One day she told them they should all get down on their knees and pray to God and ask which way was the correct way. She told them if God answered that she should join them, she would. She knelt and prayed sincerely. When she heard the door close, she got up. They never returned.
My argument is with people who want to tell me how to run my life and what I should believe. And evangelicals may try to convince me, but the activists of this world want the government to force me. If I want to say a prayer, the First Amendment says the government cannot prevent me from doing so. If you don’t want to see me say a prayer, don’t watch. That is your freedom. You don’t have the right to have the government make me stop.
Comment by Bunker — November 26, 2004 @ 7:16 pm